The Basics books value

A place to post and debate the Church of Scientology.
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WhiteTrashMessiah
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Post by WhiteTrashMessiah » Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:40 am

Wieber wrote:It's been my observation that most businesses that go bankrupt look really good right up to the end. That rate card is a little clue that all isn't peachy in the land of Loo Ron Poo.
^This.

By all indications, the cult tends to equate monies "on account" with "money already in the bank" (a BIG financial no-no), meaning that they can jerk around members for that money til the cows come home by sending them for "services" that they say are using the funds up (and can do so over and over), even though said "services" are grossly overinflated in the first place...

However, with this softening of the bottom line by changing the method to include payment from the "on account" monies of a member says two things to me; one, that the pockets of individual Scientologists have gotten SO dry and picked over, that the cult can no longer rely on tapping them directly at regge events anymore and have had to come up with a new method of enticing sales and delivering product as opposed to services (probably for stats targets) and also solidifying their grasp on those "on account" funds. Be sure to add in the dwindling numbers at the Orgs that are paying fees for services in that equation too. People just don't have the dosh.

Second, this tells me there's probably a lot of "robbing Peter to pay Paul" likely going on behind the veil on staff too. the cult has always been adept at diverting, funneling and "re purposing" funds when it's become necessary to do so, and given the above, in addition to the activity regarding the trend of going from Org size operations to missions, it looks to me like they're trying to make the cashflow pipes a lot leaner... Kind of like how the body, when it goes into shock after a heavy trauma, will constrict blood flow to the affected area to keep the heart pumping and the brain alive.

Put it all together, and it gives me reason to believe that they're in trouble.... in a BIG way.

That's my take on it anyway....
MAYHEM. MUTINY. ENTURBULATION.

"GMs aren't allowed to tell you but the bridge quest is bugged. Even after you complete all the objectives, it stays on your quest list and you keep losing money. Only way to stop it is to log out and uninstall."

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Sea Horse
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Post by Sea Horse » Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:02 am

Re-purposing on-account funds...

This brings up more funny accounting on the part of CofS. I'll explain.

When you buy 4 intensives, it costs $12,000 instead of $3,200 per intensive ($12,800 for 4 if purchased individually). It's called a volume discount. Let's say you pay in $12,000 and you've only used two intensives ($6K of the $12K). That means, you will have $6,000 left on account.

If you use that $6,000 for books and stuff, you've "used the package" and if you need two more intensives later it will cost you $3,200 each.

Sometimes, CofS goes further than that. They will say that you've "broken the package" and they will re-calculate your auditing. Oh, let's see. You used two intensives at $3,200 each -- that's $6,400 of your original $12,000 "donation". So now you only have $5,400 on account, not the $6,000 you thought you had.

So somehow in converting (re-purposing) your "on account" money from intensives to books, you've somehow LOST $600 (or 10% of your account).
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Wieber
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Post by Wieber » Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:43 am

This brings to mind one of the earliest policy letters I was "crammed" on. I believe it is called "Cuttative Prices" or "Cuttative Pricing." (Funny, the loaded language word "cuttative" didn't really ever catch on.)

The basic premise of this policy was that giving discounts, which is a "cuttative" action, is "suppressive" and "contra survival."

The other rule from policy at that time was that "orgs" and "missions" could charge more for services than the official price list but they could not charge less.

I guess Davey decided those policies were old and not to be used any more.
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WhiteTrashMessiah
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Post by WhiteTrashMessiah » Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:17 am

Sea Horse wrote:So somehow in converting (re-purposing) your "on account" money from intensives to books, you've somehow LOST $600 (or 10% of your account).
The only thing the Scilons seem to do "straight up" is taking the money :-/
MAYHEM. MUTINY. ENTURBULATION.

"GMs aren't allowed to tell you but the bridge quest is bugged. Even after you complete all the objectives, it stays on your quest list and you keep losing money. Only way to stop it is to log out and uninstall."

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daisy
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Post by daisy » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:55 pm

Got some more basic book info in the mail. This has no IAS price. It has only Cash price & Off Account price. Please check out the taxes figured out in these prices.

Image

Print is a bit small. Here is what it says:

The Ultimate Collection

CASH Price $7,850 with tax: $8497.63

Package Price: $5,000 with tax $5,412.50

Off ACCOUNT Price $7,850 with tax: $8,497.63

Package Price: $6,250 with tax $6,495


The Basics Package

CASH Price $4,575 with tax $4,952.44

Package price: $3,000 with tax $3,518.13

Off Account Price $4,575 with tax $4,952.44

Package price: $3,750 with tax $4,059.38

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Sea Horse
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Post by Sea Horse » Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:10 pm

Their math sure sucks. Here's the percentages on tax in the same order you posted the figures:

8.25%
8.25%
8.25%
3.92%

8.25%
17.27%
8.25%
8.25%
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grathuln
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Post by grathuln » Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:19 pm

darbs19 wrote:Thats interesting machwon. I am here in Phoenix and have been in a few used bookstores and haven't seen any Hubbard books except for his fiction. Maybe even the used bookstores are getting wise to the scam and not purchasing the books anymore.
I hear tails of our local scilons buying up and 2nd hand Scilon books from books shops but online is the place to go.

Probably right though, if you can't shift em for pennies on Amazon then what bookshop in their right mind is going to give them shelf space? One ex-sci told me they dropped their collection at a charity shop.

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grathuln
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Post by grathuln » Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:30 pm

Sea Horse wrote:Re-purposing on-account funds...

This brings up more funny accounting on the part of CofS. I'll explain.

When you buy 4 intensives, it costs $12,000 instead of $3,200 per intensive ($12,800 for 4 if purchased individually). It's called a volume discount. Let's say you pay in $12,000 and you've only used two intensives ($6K of the $12K). That means, you will have $6,000 left on account.

If you use that $6,000 for books and stuff, you've "used the package" and if you need two more intensives later it will cost you $3,200 each.

Sometimes, CofS goes further than that. They will say that you've "broken the package" and they will re-calculate your auditing. Oh, let's see. You used two intensives at $3,200 each -- that's $6,400 of your original $12,000 "donation". So now you only have $5,400 on account, not the $6,000 you thought you had.

So somehow in converting (re-purposing) your "on account" money from intensives to books, you've somehow LOST $600 (or 10% of your account).
If there is one thing that is becoming clear is that Co$ (the organisation) is a master of money shuffling. They obsfucate to the nth degree with the cash, moving it around and I am damn sure chunks of it keep falling off in to a magic pocket somewhere (probably diddy DMs back pocket).

I'd credit LRH for this but I believe it's a system that has evolved to meet the demands of LRH and later diddy DM with the efforts of several people doing their damndest to do "the right thing", Larry Brehnen et al.

It's fascinating but the way it is set up I don't think the people doing the day to day work, following procedure, realise themselves that money is disappearing.

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WhiteTrashMessiah
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Post by WhiteTrashMessiah » Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:16 pm

grathuln wrote:It's fascinating but the way it is set up I don't think the people doing the day to day work, following procedure, realise themselves that money is disappearing.
That's a good point and for the most part, probably true.

However, I believe it was Chris Tucker in the film "Rush Hour" who said; "Follow the money... You follow the money, you get to the white man".

In the case of the CoS the "white man" is the accountant. Whoever is doing the accounting for CoS, be it contracted out or in-house, is a very weak link... there is nothing that makes a criminal enterprise as vunerable as the numbers in generates in accounting... Wasn't that how they finally got Al Capone after all?

If the accounting is in-house, if someone in that Dept. would blow and bring dox right to the FBI... Well, it would be epic.
MAYHEM. MUTINY. ENTURBULATION.

"GMs aren't allowed to tell you but the bridge quest is bugged. Even after you complete all the objectives, it stays on your quest list and you keep losing money. Only way to stop it is to log out and uninstall."

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daisy
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Post by daisy » Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:36 pm

Sea Horse
Their math sure sucks. Here's the percentages on tax in the same order you posted the figures:

8.25%
8.25%
8.25%
3.92%

8.25%
17.27%
8.25%
8.25%
Yeah, my husband did the numbers and came up with the same. 8.25% , I can see that. But 3.92% and 17.27 % !!! What would the tax board say about that?

And what the hell happened to no IAS price? What does your membership get you these days? LOL

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Sea Horse
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Post by Sea Horse » Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:41 pm

I had an amount on account which CofS just removed... for no reason.

I kept copies of all accounts, and this one I had verified just about two years before asking for a refund. This amount (which was very small... like less than $10) magically had disappeared.

I persisted and told them there was indeed something on account. They miraculously "found" it... told me they had just debited it, but didn't give me a reason why... and they did refund that amount. Like I said, it was less than $10, and the account had been used within the previous 3 years.

I know people who have had balances (unused) for over 10 years, including myself, without their balances being "deleted".

Why did CofS choose to "remove" this amount on account without notifying me?

By the way, I was local and had not moved during all this time. And this was not "pre computers"... it was in the last few years.

Funny accounting? Fraud? You betcha!
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grathuln
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Post by grathuln » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:56 am

Sea Horse wrote:I had an amount on account which CofS just removed... for no reason.

I kept copies of all accounts, and this one I had verified just about two years before asking for a refund. This amount (which was very small... like less than $10) magically had disappeared.

I persisted and told them there was indeed something on account. They miraculously "found" it... told me they had just debited it, but didn't give me a reason why... and they did refund that amount. Like I said, it was less than $10, and the account had been used within the previous 3 years.

I know people who have had balances (unused) for over 10 years, including myself, without their balances being "deleted".

Why did CofS choose to "remove" this amount on account without notifying me?

By the way, I was local and had not moved during all this time. And this was not "pre computers"... it was in the last few years.

Funny accounting? Fraud? You betcha!
Hm, all this money "on account" it sounds like Co$ is acting like a bank, just not providing any interest to members. I don't for one minute think that members money on account is left gathering dust, I am sure it is put to what ever use the church has for it; after all it isn't like the services they have charged for cost them anywhere near what they charge.

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Post by 4truth2 » Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:56 pm

Scientology's "funny money" accounting practices reminds me of the spectacular crash of Enron, and how they almost completely took down Arthur Anderson who did their book cooking, with them.

But I have a question I need for someone to clear up for me: I've been out since 1999 and my impression is that the "Basics" book package was all of the LRH books from the 1950's (not including the red tech vols of the green policy vols), which totals (I think) no more than 20-25 books. Doesn't that mean that they are being sold for $150-200 each? And isn't that about ten times the price one would pay for the books seperately? So DM just through these together with but a tiny handful of cosmetic alterations and expected all loyal Scientologists to cough up more hard earned cash for books that always have been and always will be completely worthless.

So much so that when I got out and tried to sell my so called LRH library, I called EVERY used book store in the Bay Area and NOT ONE STORE was interested in buying a single book even though I was willing to sell them for 10% of what I orginally paid for them,

Which brings me back to the thread title about the basics books "value":

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

It also kinda gives a new meaning to Shaksepear's "Much Ado about Nothing", dontcha think!?
"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
George Orwell

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